Game of Thrones e House of the Dragon - serie prequel

[HadVance94 252]

Ma gli immacolati quanto sono scarsi,a parte Verme Grigio? Mamma mia oh altro che guerrieri formidabili..

In teoria dovrebbero essere le forze speciali di game of thrones visto il duro addetramento ecc..ma alla fine sono normali guerrieri

[Marcostratias 8.180]

Ma gli immacolati quanto sono scarsi,a parte Verme Grigio? Mamma mia oh altro che guerrieri formidabili..

Ci credo, combattono con la lancia e basta in mezzo alle vie cittadine.

Come mettere un oplita a combattere a matera.

[Darktidus 1.959]

Quasi quasi mi è venuta voglia di leggere i libri

 

Sul fatto delle differenze tra libro e tv o cinema....è sempre così.

Quando più, quando meno, ma raramente i fan dei libri sono soddisfatti.

Il punto è che libri e tv/cinema sono proprio 2 mondi diversi ed inevitabilmente anche i lavori sono diversi.

Se fanno delle scelte hanno le loro motivazioni...anche se certi cambiamenti possano infastidire parecchio chi ha letto i libri.

 

 

ma io non lo metto in dubbio questo

 

ma se decidi di fare un film su batman, e mi rappresenti batman con i genitori vivi, omosessuale, povero in canna, senza batmobile, grasso e scarso nelle arti marziali, allora ti meriti tutti gli insulti del mondo se quel film lo chiami "batman".

 

ultima delle meraviglie, la fine che fa Shireen. giuro che mi son messo a ridere, pensavo da stupido che fosse una trovata per creare suspence stile Abramo-Isacco. stavo anche valutando la scena come una genialata. ho spento. troppe * tutte assieme, i'm done.

 

il punto principale che, a quanto mi sembra di capire, i telespettatori non hanno capito, è che nè io nè altri ci lamentiamo per dei cambiamenti; quelli fino alla quarta serie mantenevano comunque in piedi la storia, ci stavano. devi mettere su schermo dei libri, il cambiamento è d'obbligo.

ma arrivati ad oggi non è che hai fatto dei cambiamenti, hai proprio scritto un'altra storia, ed è questo il punto della discussione. Qui non parliamo di adattamenti, di spezzettare Lo Hobbit in 3 e infilarci una moderata quantità di cose non propriamente giuste. Qui parliamo di prendere Lo Hobbit e raccontare Star Wars

[TragicBronson 5.215]

ma i tempi morti, e sono d'accordo, risulterebbero per forza "noiosi" a livello televisivo, ma ci sono modi e modi per renderli, si tratta proprio di una scelta di fondo.

 

io aspetto ancora (e spero ancora) di vedere cosa fanno con Quentyn. è troppo importante, è un'altra chiave di volta. Qui hanno deciso di eliminare tutta la storia di quentyn (diciamo almeno 10 capitoli ? ) e di trasporne una misera parte sulla storyline di Tyrion, ma non regge.

 

è proprio una scelta che non si riesce a capire, la parte su Quentyn era perfetta per ricollegare Daenerys a Westeros, cosa c'era di meglio ?

 

sulla parte di Tyrion, anche questa era perfetta per creare suspence e far quadrare tutti i conti. Dov'è lord Jon Connington ? e Griff il Giovane (non metto il vero nome, per evitare spoilers) ? Niente, potevano metterci dentro altri 4-5 colpi di scena e invece fanno prendere il morbo grigio a Jorah, caspita, già che devi inventare fallo almeno decentemente, visto che il morbo grigio lo prende qualcun altro.

 

e.. sui Greyjoy ?

quà ci sono 3 diversi personaggi che stanno andando tutti quanti da daenerys (Victarion Greyjoy, Quentyn Martell, "Griff il giovane") tutti per motivi diversi, ognuno stra-importante, ma nulla. e nota bene, ne basta una delle tre per collegare daenerys ai sette regni e far quadrare i conti.

Ma scusa quale sarebbe l'utilità di Quentyn?

Cioè a meno che tu sappia di una sua evoluzione tipo Lady Stoneheart la sua utilità si è conclusa nel libro,non è servito a NIENTE.

Se avessi detto Barristan,potevo anche convenire,ma Quentyn?Dai,molto più influente il suo accompagnatore di lui,e citando il Principe Straccione,Ranocchio è proprio il soprannome che gli si addice.

Su Jon Connington e Griff penso che non si possa battere su quel tasto perchè sono il ritorno dei Blackfire sulla scena di ASOIAF,come fai a descrivere nella serie la storia di Aegon il IV e del fatto che abbia riconosciuto 6 * avuti con altrettante casate nobili?

I Greyjoi fortunatamente ce li siamo scampati,capitoli inutili,sopratutto quelli di Asha prima dell'acclamazione.

Se Martin invece di infilare 730 storie parallele avesse fatto una raccolta in stile Tolkien(LOTR,Appendici,Racconti incompiuti,Silmarillion eccecc)avrebbe fatto a tutti un piacere,e invece stiamo qui a distanza di più di 15 anni a chiederci se saremo noi o i nostri figli a leggere la fine di questa saga.

 

Ma gli immacolati quanto sono scarsi,a parte Verme Grigio? Mamma mia oh altro che guerrieri formidabili..

Sono la fanteria più forte non dei Bersekr

[Gamarra 3.285]

Ah quindi niente più spoiler? Daje!

 

Sono alla 5x03. Arya davanti alla porta bianconera! Emozione! Anche il confronto Roose-Littlefinger mi è piaciuto.

Poi con calma cercherò di leggermi tutti i commenti della quinta...

[nomevisualizzato 18.049]

ma io non lo metto in dubbio questo

 

ma se decidi di fare un film su batman, e mi rappresenti batman con i genitori vivi, omosessuale, povero in canna, senza batmobile, grasso e scarso nelle arti marziali, allora ti meriti tutti gli insulti del mondo se quel film lo chiami "batman".

 

ultima delle meraviglie, la fine che fa Shireen. giuro che mi son messo a ridere, pensavo da stupido che fosse una trovata per creare suspence stile Abramo-Isacco. stavo anche valutando la scena come una genialata. ho spento. troppe * tutte assieme, i'm done.

 

il punto principale che, a quanto mi sembra di capire, i telespettatori non hanno capito, è che nè io nè altri ci lamentiamo per dei cambiamenti; quelli fino alla quarta serie mantenevano comunque in piedi la storia, ci stavano. devi mettere su schermo dei libri, il cambiamento è d'obbligo.

ma arrivati ad oggi non è che hai fatto dei cambiamenti, hai proprio scritto un'altra storia, ed è questo il punto della discussione. Qui non parliamo di adattamenti, di spezzettare Lo Hobbit in 3 e infilarci una moderata quantità di cose non propriamente giuste. Qui parliamo di prendere Lo Hobbit e raccontare Star Wars

 

l'avevano detto, comunque, che la serie e i libri avrebbero prese strade diverse

e dal loro punto di vista è anche giusto, avrebbero potuto tirare avanti ancora per poco senza il materiale dei libri, anche gestendo meglio la trama...ma prima o poi si sarebbero trovati senza risorse, anche perchè mancano ancora due libri alla naturale conclusione delle cronache, e coi tempi di martin vuol dire quanto? altri 6-7 anni se va bene?

 

per loro è conveniente cavalcare l'onda del successo e chiuderla in maniera verosimile coi tempi più adatti per una produzione tv...che poi non sia fedele è chiaro, ma era inevitabile

[Gamarra 3.285]

5x05

 

Ser Barristan, una prece. Ser Jorah, non fare danni! Un raggio di sole su Winterfell... A dream of spring, a buon intenditor...

[Sokol 1.809]

FInale di stagione...mehhhh....morti a go go è spoiler?

Tanto è GoT, i morti ci sono in ogni episodio!

[Tröstende Gedanken 10.737]

FInale di stagione...mehhhh....morti a go go è spoiler?

Tanto è GoT, i morti ci sono in ogni episodio!

 

Io non credo alla morte di Jon Snow. Inquadrano il suo sangue e da quelle parti è arrivata Melisandre..

Non ho capito se Sansa e Theon son morti.

 

[Sokol 1.809]

 

Io non credo alla morte di Jon Snow. Inquadrano il suo sangue e da quelle parti è arrivata Melisandre..

Non ho capito se Sansa e Theon son morti.

 

 

 

Nooo, Sansa e Reek non credo proprio...come non credo alla morte di Jon, se no che è tornata a fare la rossa?

E anche Stannis ti diro...

 

[Tröstende Gedanken 10.737]

 

Nooo, Sansa e Reek non credo proprio...come non credo alla morte di Jon, se no che è tornata a fare la rossa?

E anche Stannis ti diro...

 

 

Jon Snow è quasi certo non sia morto,secondo me. Sansa e Theon probabilmente son riusciti a sopravvivere a quel salto. Sono storie che ha senso portare avanti.

Stannis,invece,potrebbe non essere morto,perchè non si è visto Brienne ucciderlo,ma che altro avrebbe da dare il personaggio ora?

È anche abbastanza poetico il suo fallimento

 

[Sokol 1.809]

 

Jon Snow è quasi certo non sia morto,secondo me. Sansa e Theon probabilmente son riusciti a sopravvivere a quel salto. Sono storie che ha senso portare avanti.

Stannis,invece,potrebbe non essere morto,perchè non si è visto Brienne ucciderlo,ma che altro avrebbe da dare il personaggio ora?

È anche abbastanza poetico il suo fallimento

 

 

 

Può benissimo essere...ma visto che non l'hanno fato vedere (Stannis) morire...lascia qualche dubbio leggitimo. E in GoT non si fanno tanti problemi a farti vedere qualche morto!

Sansa e Theon al 100% sono vivi.

Il dubbio è sul personaggio che magari ci interessa un pelo in più... Jon...la rossa non me la racconta giusta.

Certo che anche il ragazzino lo ha pugnalato...povero Jon! Proprio You know nothing!

Ma lo hai visto il video che hanno fatto con i ColdPlay? Spettacolo!

 

Adesso bisogna aspettare 1 anno...ma meglio che con Sherlock è sicuramente, meglio non lamentarsi!

 

[Tröstende Gedanken 10.737]

 

Può benissimo essere...ma visto che non l'hanno fato vedere (Stannis) morire...lascia qualche dubbio leggitimo. E in GoT non si fanno tanti problemi a farti vedere qualche morto!

Sansa e Theon al 100% sono vivi.

Il dubbio è sul personaggio che magari ci interessa un pelo in più... Jon...la rossa non me la racconta giusta.

Certo che anche il ragazzino lo ha pugnalato...povero Jon! Proprio You know nothing!

Ma lo hai visto il video che hanno fatto con i ColdPlay? Spettacolo!

 

Adesso bisogna aspettare 1 anno...ma meglio che con Sherlock è sicuramente, meglio non lamentarsi!

 

Certo che ho visto il video fatto con i Coldplay. La canzone di Daenerys è la mia preferita.

 

 

Jon Snow è un povero a lui. Il ragazzino che lo pugnala era prevedibile,dal momento che è il personaggio più malvagio della serie .

 

[Mormegil 13.611]

E quel morbo che si è preso?

Non so se nella saga sono andati avanti con il personaggio,ma potrebbe contagiare qualche personaggio importante. Non credo sia solo una trovata per rendere la sua storia struggente o almeno spero (perchè non lo è).

La malattia è la traslazione su Jorah di ciò che succede a un altro personaggio, che immagino nella serie non ci sia.

Continuo a pensare che il prodotto della HBO non sia così scadente come lo si vuol fare passare.

Degli scenari sembrano abbastanza senza senso?Ok,verissimo.

Jaime a Dorne con Bronn mi pare abbastanza borderline,ma prima vediamo dove vanno a parare no?Anche perchè Jaime che se ne va a spasso con Brienne con mezza faccia mancante per le terre dei fiumi non è assolutamente meglio.

Per quello che riguarda Daenerys,siete seri?Davvero volevate che riprendessero i libri per quanto riguarda Daenerys?

Cioè una rottura di * inenarrabile,lei che sta li ad arrovellarsi e a passare dal rozzo mercenario travestito da Mirko dei BeHive a quell'altro con le impalcature in testa.

Lo hanno reso più scorrevole?Ma ringraziamo Iddio.

Ringraziamo Iddio anche di averci,fin'ora,evitato le avventure della novella Giovanna d'Arco delle Isole di Ferro e dei suoi zii.

A volte sembrate i fan di Tolkien incazzati con Jackson per non aver inserito Tom Bombadill nei film di LOTR

Non ti piacciono i capitoli di Brienne?!

Ho adorato tutte le peregrinazioni per le terre dei fiumi, da Arya in poi. Sono una caratteristica pregnante dell'opera: tentativi sbagliati in partenza, piani che saltano in continuazione, convinzioni dei protagonisti totalmente errate, lentezza e difficoltà semplicemente nello spostarsi. Insomma, la vita. Non colpi di scena a muzzo, che del colpo di scena non mantengono più nulla.

Daenerys in effetti è un po' noiosa nel quinto libro.

 

Ah, non aver messo Tom è uno scandalo.

orsù qua non si tratta di non aver inserito tom bombadil o di essersi inventati Tauriel

quà si tratta di aver preso Frodo e avergli fatto fare l'aiutante di Sam, che ovviamente porta l'anello.

i non-morti che se ne fregano del patto fatto al parente di aragorn e ammazzano quest'ultimo

Thorin che non muore, Balin che ri-fonda Moria, nella quale non viene risvegliato il Balrog

Bilbo che non trova l'anello, e anzi, muore sulle montagne nebbiose

Theoden che è manovrato da Gandalf e non da Saruman

quest'è. altro che non aver inserito tom bombadil.

alla fine viene fuori una storia fighissima, ma sfido a dire che si tratta di LotR

Più o meno ..

[Mormegil 13.611]

Il fantasy mi piace...non tutto (vedi quelli per adolescenti) ma mi piace.

Il problema è che la serie, al netto di sesso e violenza, ha sempre flirtato con quel tipo di fantasy. New adult.

[TragicBronson 5.215]

Ecco,ora siete in pari con i libri

[TragicBronson 5.215]

 

Non ti piacciono i capitoli di Brienne?!

Ho adorato tutte le peregrinazioni per le terre dei fiumi, da Arya in poi. Sono una caratteristica pregnante dell'opera: tentativi sbagliati in partenza, piani che saltano in continuazione, convinzioni dei protagonisti totalmente errate, lentezza e difficoltà semplicemente nello spostarsi. Insomma, la vita. Non colpi di scena a muzzo, che del colpo di scena non mantengono più nulla.

Daenerys in effetti è un po' noiosa nel quinto libro.

 

Ah, non aver messo Tom è uno scandalo.

 

Ma dai

Praticamente quei capitoli servono solo per farci vedere dove sono finiti i mercenari del lord caprone e per farci capire che Tarly è una specie di nazista fantasy,i miei preferiti sono quelli di Sansa post fuga oltre ovviamente quelli di Tyrion e di Jaime,per i quali io parteggio apertamente

Tom è un idolo giovanile,riuscì a "conquistare" Baccador

[Mormegil 13.611]

Ma dai

Praticamente quei capitoli servono solo per farci vedere dove sono finiti i mercenari del lord caprone e per farci capire che Tarly è una specie di nazista fantasy,i miei preferiti sono quelli di Sansa post fuga oltre ovviamente quelli di Tyrion e di Jaime,per i quali io parteggio apertamente

Tom è un idolo giovanile,riuscì a "conquistare" Baccador

se togliamo questo le Cronache diventano "solo" una bella storia prolissa, e allora sì che la noia può venir fuori.

 

Ah, io sono #teamArya.

Baccador: quando il cambiamento fonetico fa la differenza

[TragicBronson 5.215]

se togliamo questo le Cronache diventano "solo" una bella storia prolissa, e allora sì che la noia può venir fuori.

 

Ah, io sono #teamArya.

Baccador: quando il cambiamento fonetico fa la differenza

Effettivamente non potevi che appartenere al team della bambina abbandonata dal padre che era un grande combattente e che poi si avvicina al lato oscuro

Arya è praticamente il Turin di Martin

[Mormegil 13.611]

Effettivamente non potevi che appartenere al team della bambina abbandonata dal padre che era un grande combattente e che poi si avvicina al lato oscuro

Arya è praticamente il Turin di Martin

Sono commosso da questo tuo riferimento ...

 

Spoiler alert: If you have not read at least the five main books of the A Song of Ice and Fire series, then do not read this. Do not even let your eyes wander idly over your computer screen while this page is up. Quickly, as in right now, click on something else.

 

The Maester: I think we’ve waited long enough. The furtive emails on Sunday evenings, post-Thrones, will no longer cut it. Mallory, oh, Mother of Dragons, you insane person, I must know, bookie-to-bookie, spoilers-be-damned, what you think of this dramatically divergent season of Game of Thrones.

Mother of Dragons: Ser Jason of House Concepcion! Grand Maester of our hearts! Thank the gods that you’re here to counsel me through this moment of grief! Shireen is gone. Kind, gentle, literate Shireen. Burned at the stake on her father’s command — killed by the man beholden to his warped sense of purpose and by the showrunners hell-bent on testing our patience and understanding.

 

You went deep on this in Tuesday’s “Ask the Maester” column, so I won’t dwell on it too long here, but it wouldn’t feel right to kick off a book-reader discussion with anything else. Season 5 has been rife with divergences from The Text, including two previous decisions to kill characters on the show who are still alive in the book: Mance¹ and Ser Barristan. And while I find all plot tweaks difficult to stomach — because I fear change and have thus quietly rebelled against all accelerations, omissions, or additions — the show’s decision to ax Shireen is the toughest. (And before anyone asks: The showrunners’ decision to point fingers and say “GEORGE WAS GUNNA ANYWAY!” makes me feel worse, not better! In addition to altering the plot we already know and love, they’re also spoiling the stuff that’s yet to come. Rude.) What has Shireen ever done other than teach Davos and Gilly to read, hug her frigid father, and play with wooden sailboats? It’s not her fault that she contracted greyscale as a child or that she has Baratheon blood in her veins. The violence on the show is easier to stomach when it’s just, necessary, or consensual. But this was cruel, elective, and starkly one-sided.

 

And as you said on Tuesday, it was also illogical: Stannis, who’s lived his life to the letter of the law, can’t possibly believe that the Westerosi people will support a man who killed his own daughter. But here’s what I really don’t get: Why did the showrunners spend time humanizing Stannis if this was the plan? Why engender sympathy and affection by showing viewers how kind Stannis was to Shireen, how accepting, how devoted? Was it just to toy with us? There’s a difference between attempting to demonstrate that this is a dark world where dark things happen and asking viewers to invest in a character who would burn his child and heir for his own personal gain. Blood magic is part of the genre, and hard truths are part of the story — but this was plain evil. And it was uncharacteristic for a show that spends so much time in the shadows, which only come when there’s both darkness and light.

But enough about that ugliness! What book-to-show change has been weighing as heavily on you as your Maester’s chain?

The Maester: My biggest gripe about this season is the Dorne arc, which is just a mess. Prince Doran, in the books, is a richly nuanced character whose seemingly tepid response to the murder of multiple family members masks the fact that he’s been working for years behind the scenes to engineer the downfall of the Lannisters.

Martin, of course, loves to play with characters who appear to be weak but who actually have hidden strengths and/or traits that aren’t properly valued by Westerosi society. It’s a defining stylistic trait of ASoIaF.Samwell’s father, one of the best soldiers in the realm, rejects him because he has no martial ability. There is no word in the common tongue for nerd, but Sam has a talent for books and research — talents Jon puts to great use, and Sam discovers the White Walkers’ weakness to dragonglass. Tyrion is a dwarf, deemed cursed by the Seven, but he’s got the sharpest political mind in Westeros. And Jaime’s character only developed a soul when he lost his sword hand.

But by pivoting to the so-far-very-underwhelming but oh-so-very-premium-cable-naked Sand Snakes, the show has retconned Prince Doran into a character who is weak and ineffectual. A guy who really sits in his gouty wheelchair doing nothing instead of merely appearing to do nothing. Maybe there’s still a Doran long game reveal for the finale. And maybe this is just overthinking it — but, to me, the watering down of Prince Doran is the most influential of the changes to the Dorne story line. Turning Princess Arianne into Ellaria, the whatever-it-is-they’re-doing-with–Quentyn Martell thing, even the flat-out bad depiction of the Sand Snakes (who, to be fair, weren’t exactly Ms. Personalities in the books) — all of those things flow from what Doran does. If he’s working covertly while appearing placid to hold Dorne together, then the Snakes are misguided insurgents. If he is actually doing nothing all of these years, then the Snakes are right.

What about you, Mal?

 

Mother of Dragons: YOU MEAN OTHER THAN BESMIRCHING JORAH’S BEAUTIFUL MAN FLESH WITH GREYSCALE?!

This is a tough call, but I guess the alterations to Sansa’s story line have thrown me the most. At first, I was willing to play along, because Sansa’s arc in A Feast for Crows isn’t the most enthralling. Like, no offense to Harrold Hardyng, who has a dope nickname and sounds pretty hot, but I got why the showrunners thought it made more sense to have Littlefinger sell Sansa off to an established TV character instead. I also understood why Sers Benioff and Weiss opted against going the Jeyne Poole/Fake Arya route; that kind of layered plot works beautifully on the printed page, but would have felt convoluted onscreen.

But they took my trust and flayed it to the bone, buddy. The idea of watching Sansa learn the finer points of subterfuge from Littlefinger while remaining in hiding as Alayne Stone sounds pretty darn good compared to what we’ve gotten, which has been an increasingly deep pit of pain, misery, and despair. I wasn’t surprised by the Ramsay-Sansa rape scene, because once the showrunners decided to betroth her to a monster, things were only going to end one way; but I was still incredibly disappointed. Hasn’t Sansa suffered enough? She lost her parents; spent an unpleasant amount of time as Joffrey’s plaything; got married off to another Lannister;² and nearly had her own aunt push her through the Moon Door. The idea that she needed to learn another “lesson” about how life’s not fair is complete and total bullshit. Show Sansa has matured just like book Sansa, gaining agency and learning to fight for dignity and survival. But the show has doused her path to progress in wildfire, and as we both know, that stuff can blow up in a hurry.

And now what? Where will she go after Theon has told her that Bran and Rickon are alive? If the Sansa-for-Fake-Arya substitution holds, Theon and Sansa will flee, fall into the hands of yet another foe, and wind up as prisoners in Stannis’s camp. But can it hold? Doesn’t Sansa have to try to find her brothers now that she knows they’re out there? And won’t Brienne and Podrick intervene long before Mors Umber or anyone else can claim Sansa and Reek as a prize?

Speaking of Brienne: The other real bummer about Sansa’s Season 5 arc is that so many other characters are drowning in this bowl of brown. Brienne is one of the most interesting and engaging characters in the book, and she’s been relegated to sitting on her ass drinking ale and staring out a window waiting for a candle. Littlefinger, one of the most clearly defined and deliberate characters, has become impossible to predict or understand. The Boltons are in way more danger with Real Sansa in tow than they ever were with Fake Arya wailing from her bedchamber. And presumably Bran should spot Sansa praying in the Godswood one of these days, right?

George R.R. Martin’s ability to turn Sansa from a spoiled, culpable child into a sensible, sympathetic adult is one of The Text’s true achievements. The show has turned her from a young, frightened prisoner into an older, bolder prisoner, but a prisoner nonetheless.

But hey: Before we do too much shredding, let’s say something nice! What change have you actually enjoyed?

The Maester: I quite enjoyed Jon’s addition to the Hardhome expedition. The scene in which Jon argues for a wildling-Watch détente underscores his incredible character growth from callow, isolated bastard to true inspirational warrior-leader. Whether or not R + L = J, he’s already a revolutionary figure in Westerosi history. And, from a show-business perspective, deploying the show’s best action star for a set-piece battle — which, not incidentally, finally reveals (after four seasons and change) the story’s true apocalyptic stakes — is just a sound decision. Unfortunately, all of this sets the stage for what, at least from this reader’s perspective, seems like the worst foreshadowed shock “death” in the show’s history. Does Olly really need to explain how wildlings killed his parents EVERY time he appears in a scene? I think his sworn brothers, of which there are probably fewer than 100, know how he got there. We get it, dude.

But we’re being positive now!

OK. I’m pro-anything that gets Dany’s ass up and out of Meereen as quickly as possible. Therefore, I’m a fan of Tyrion’s truncated journey to the court of the Khaleesi. This change goes some of the way toward loosening the infamous Meereenese knot that ends up strangling so much of the momentum of A Dance With Dragons. Some of the knot is simply a byproduct of the structure; building a novel on first-person POV’s makes timing tricky, as evidenced by Martin’s attempted-then-abandoned five-year time jump. Still, reading the books, I never understood why Dany didn’t use her time in Meereen more efficiently. Dragon-riding should be her no. 1 priority. Why didn’t she have people scouring the ruins of Valyria and libraries near and far for any and all information pertaining to how the hell to control her dragons? Also, I think I detect a subtle retcon of Dany’s relationship with Drogon from the last scene of the episode. In the books, Drogon was ostensibly drawn to the pits by the fighting and blood. Once he’s there, Dany courageously brings him to heel with a whip. They fly away together, but Dany isn’t in control. The show seems to suggest that Drogon came because he sensed she was in danger.

What about you? What changes, if any, does Mallory “I Fear Change” Rubin view in a positive light?

Mother of Dragons: YOU MEAN OTHER THAN THE MERCIFUL DECISION NOT TO BESMIRCH JORAH’S BEAUTIFUL VISAGE WITH A SLAVE TATTOO? (Are you noticing a pattern, Ser Jason?)

My vote also goes to the Tyrion-Dany meet-cute, but for the sake of variety, I’ll offer up two other show tweaks that have gone down as smoothly as the best Arbor vintage.

First, I’d like to bend the knee to the Jaime/Bronn bromance. While I agree with everything you said about the Dorne plot and have no earthly idea what possessed the showrunners to send Jaime to the Water Gardens, I can’t complain about the Kingslayer’s choice of travel companion. Even on a show with a long history of delightful odd-couple pairings, the interplay between Bronn and Jaime has been a downright joy, particularly in a season otherwise light on comic relief. Ilyn Payne made a fine sparring partner as Book Jaime learned to fight with his left hand, but the King’s Justice definitely couldn’t deliver a rousing rendition of “The Dornishman’s Wife.” I have no idea how word of Cersei’s boudoir betrayal will reach Jaime in Dorne or how he’ll cope with Myrcella’s disfigurement, especially if that happens on his watch, but I’m more excited to find out than I thought I’d be.

And my other vote goes to Jaime’s better half, Cersei the Worsti. At first, I felt cheated out of the Kettleblack experience, but I’ve come around to these simpler times — and timelines. Cersei ruined Lancel’s life. She corrupted him, turning a perfectly innocent Ken Doll Lite into a practitioner of incest and regicide. There’s something poetic about Lancel, rather than the Kettleblacks, being the one to arm the High Sparrow with the weapons that His Holiness needs to use against the Dowager Queen; something fitting about family, the one thing that Cersei claims to love and cherish despite actions that frequently indicate otherwise, coming back to bite her in the soon-to-be-bare ass.

But enough about the characters we’re seeing nearly every Sunday night, Slayer. At this point, it seems like we’re going to have to let go of our Lady Stoneheart dreams, but which book character’s absence is wearing on your soul like the ground on a Poor Fellow’s feet?

PHILIPPE MERLE/AFP/GETTY IMAGES

The Maester: My top three most missed characters:

1. Wyman Manderly. The morbidly obese Lord Too-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse was one of the best parts of A Dance With Dragons. He provided a window into Northern resentment against Bolton rule, pointed Davos in the direction of our long-lost Rickon, and cooked the Freys into a pie and served the pies at the Ramsay-“Arya” wedding.

2. Various Freys. Where are the Freys? Will we ever get to see them paid back in kind?

3. Euron Greyjoy. Although, if the Season 6 casting call is to be believed, we will see him. (More on this next time!)

How about you?

Mother of Dragons: Great list! I can’t believe that you waited 2,000 words to talk about Your Man Wyman Manderly. Admirable restraint.

While you’re busy thirsting after Euron and his horn, I’m craving Victarion and his mangled arm. I miss the Greyjoy plots way more than I thought I would and am now secretly hoping that the Iron Islands gets its own spinoff. (If only on this website — you in, Cocreator Concepcion?) I also really miss Quentyn and Arianne and feel sure that the Martell plot would be vastly more fulfilling if these characters were in play. But there’s no contest who I’m missing most: YOUNG GRIFF, WHERE ARE YOU?

I think we should save most of the Aegon talk for next week’s post-finale book club edition, because at that point I’ll have moved on from mourning Shireen and will be ready to theorize in full about Season 6. So let’s bring this home: We can’t know for sure what Season 5’s conclusion will bring, but we have a few pretty good ideas. Is there one event that you’re anticipating the most?

The Maester: Oh, you know, only the world melting under a chorus of screams as Jon Snow sinks limply to the ground with knives sticking out of his back, his Direwolf locked up in a closet somewhere.

Mother of Dragons: Hey, don’t be such a downer! Maybe people might be too busy gawking at Cersei during her naked march of contrition to notice Jon’s blood soaking the snow below the Wall!

We’ll be back next week, folks. Enjoy the finale!

[TragicBronson 5.215]

Sono commosso da questo tuo riferimento ...

 

Spoiler alert: If you have not read at least the five main books of the A Song of Ice and Fire series, then do not read this. Do not even let your eyes wander idly over your computer screen while this page is up. Quickly, as in right now, click on something else.

 

The Maester: I think we’ve waited long enough. The furtive emails on Sunday evenings, post-Thrones, will no longer cut it. Mallory, oh, Mother of Dragons, you insane person, I must know, bookie-to-bookie, spoilers-be-damned, what you think of this dramatically divergent season of Game of Thrones.

Mother of Dragons: Ser Jason of House Concepcion! Grand Maester of our hearts! Thank the gods that you’re here to counsel me through this moment of grief! Shireen is gone. Kind, gentle, literate Shireen. Burned at the stake on her father’s command — killed by the man beholden to his warped sense of purpose and by the showrunners hell-bent on testing our patience and understanding.

 

You went deep on this in Tuesday’s “Ask the Maester” column, so I won’t dwell on it too long here, but it wouldn’t feel right to kick off a book-reader discussion with anything else. Season 5 has been rife with divergences from The Text, including two previous decisions to kill characters on the show who are still alive in the book: Mance¹ and Ser Barristan. And while I find all plot tweaks difficult to stomach — because I fear change and have thus quietly rebelled against all accelerations, omissions, or additions — the show’s decision to ax Shireen is the toughest. (And before anyone asks: The showrunners’ decision to point fingers and say “GEORGE WAS GUNNA ANYWAY!” makes me feel worse, not better! In addition to altering the plot we already know and love, they’re also spoiling the stuff that’s yet to come. Rude.) What has Shireen ever done other than teach Davos and Gilly to read, hug her frigid father, and play with wooden sailboats? It’s not her fault that she contracted greyscale as a child or that she has Baratheon blood in her veins. The violence on the show is easier to stomach when it’s just, necessary, or consensual. But this was cruel, elective, and starkly one-sided.

 

And as you said on Tuesday, it was also illogical: Stannis, who’s lived his life to the letter of the law, can’t possibly believe that the Westerosi people will support a man who killed his own daughter. But here’s what I really don’t get: Why did the showrunners spend time humanizing Stannis if this was the plan? Why engender sympathy and affection by showing viewers how kind Stannis was to Shireen, how accepting, how devoted? Was it just to toy with us? There’s a difference between attempting to demonstrate that this is a dark world where dark things happen and asking viewers to invest in a character who would burn his child and heir for his own personal gain. Blood magic is part of the genre, and hard truths are part of the story — but this was plain evil. And it was uncharacteristic for a show that spends so much time in the shadows, which only come when there’s both darkness and light.

But enough about that ugliness! What book-to-show change has been weighing as heavily on you as your Maester’s chain?

The Maester: My biggest gripe about this season is the Dorne arc, which is just a mess. Prince Doran, in the books, is a richly nuanced character whose seemingly tepid response to the murder of multiple family members masks the fact that he’s been working for years behind the scenes to engineer the downfall of the Lannisters.

Martin, of course, loves to play with characters who appear to be weak but who actually have hidden strengths and/or traits that aren’t properly valued by Westerosi society. It’s a defining stylistic trait of ASoIaF.Samwell’s father, one of the best soldiers in the realm, rejects him because he has no martial ability. There is no word in the common tongue for nerd, but Sam has a talent for books and research — talents Jon puts to great use, and Sam discovers the White Walkers’ weakness to dragonglass. Tyrion is a dwarf, deemed cursed by the Seven, but he’s got the sharpest political mind in Westeros. And Jaime’s character only developed a soul when he lost his sword hand.

But by pivoting to the so-far-very-underwhelming but oh-so-very-premium-cable-naked Sand Snakes, the show has retconned Prince Doran into a character who is weak and ineffectual. A guy who really sits in his gouty wheelchair doing nothing instead of merely appearing to do nothing. Maybe there’s still a Doran long game reveal for the finale. And maybe this is just overthinking it — but, to me, the watering down of Prince Doran is the most influential of the changes to the Dorne story line. Turning Princess Arianne into Ellaria, the whatever-it-is-they’re-doing-with–Quentyn Martell thing, even the flat-out bad depiction of the Sand Snakes (who, to be fair, weren’t exactly Ms. Personalities in the books) — all of those things flow from what Doran does. If he’s working covertly while appearing placid to hold Dorne together, then the Snakes are misguided insurgents. If he is actually doing nothing all of these years, then the Snakes are right.

What about you, Mal?

 

Mother of Dragons: YOU MEAN OTHER THAN BESMIRCHING JORAH’S BEAUTIFUL MAN FLESH WITH GREYSCALE?!

This is a tough call, but I guess the alterations to Sansa’s story line have thrown me the most. At first, I was willing to play along, because Sansa’s arc in A Feast for Crows isn’t the most enthralling. Like, no offense to Harrold Hardyng, who has a dope nickname and sounds pretty hot, but I got why the showrunners thought it made more sense to have Littlefinger sell Sansa off to an established TV character instead. I also understood why Sers Benioff and Weiss opted against going the Jeyne Poole/Fake Arya route; that kind of layered plot works beautifully on the printed page, but would have felt convoluted onscreen.

But they took my trust and flayed it to the bone, buddy. The idea of watching Sansa learn the finer points of subterfuge from Littlefinger while remaining in hiding as Alayne Stone sounds pretty darn good compared to what we’ve gotten, which has been an increasingly deep pit of pain, misery, and despair. I wasn’t surprised by the Ramsay-Sansa rape scene, because once the showrunners decided to betroth her to a monster, things were only going to end one way; but I was still incredibly disappointed. Hasn’t Sansa suffered enough? She lost her parents; spent an unpleasant amount of time as Joffrey’s plaything; got married off to another Lannister;² and nearly had her own aunt push her through the Moon Door. The idea that she needed to learn another “lesson” about how life’s not fair is complete and total bullshit. Show Sansa has matured just like book Sansa, gaining agency and learning to fight for dignity and survival. But the show has doused her path to progress in wildfire, and as we both know, that stuff can blow up in a hurry.

And now what? Where will she go after Theon has told her that Bran and Rickon are alive? If the Sansa-for-Fake-Arya substitution holds, Theon and Sansa will flee, fall into the hands of yet another foe, and wind up as prisoners in Stannis’s camp. But can it hold? Doesn’t Sansa have to try to find her brothers now that she knows they’re out there? And won’t Brienne and Podrick intervene long before Mors Umber or anyone else can claim Sansa and Reek as a prize?

Speaking of Brienne: The other real bummer about Sansa’s Season 5 arc is that so many other characters are drowning in this bowl of brown. Brienne is one of the most interesting and engaging characters in the book, and she’s been relegated to sitting on her ass drinking ale and staring out a window waiting for a candle. Littlefinger, one of the most clearly defined and deliberate characters, has become impossible to predict or understand. The Boltons are in way more danger with Real Sansa in tow than they ever were with Fake Arya wailing from her bedchamber. And presumably Bran should spot Sansa praying in the Godswood one of these days, right?

George R.R. Martin’s ability to turn Sansa from a spoiled, culpable child into a sensible, sympathetic adult is one of The Text’s true achievements. The show has turned her from a young, frightened prisoner into an older, bolder prisoner, but a prisoner nonetheless.

But hey: Before we do too much shredding, let’s say something nice! What change have you actually enjoyed?

The Maester: I quite enjoyed Jon’s addition to the Hardhome expedition. The scene in which Jon argues for a wildling-Watch détente underscores his incredible character growth from callow, isolated bastard to true inspirational warrior-leader. Whether or not R + L = J, he’s already a revolutionary figure in Westerosi history. And, from a show-business perspective, deploying the show’s best action star for a set-piece battle — which, not incidentally, finally reveals (after four seasons and change) the story’s true apocalyptic stakes — is just a sound decision. Unfortunately, all of this sets the stage for what, at least from this reader’s perspective, seems like the worst foreshadowed shock “death” in the show’s history. Does Olly really need to explain how wildlings killed his parents EVERY time he appears in a scene? I think his sworn brothers, of which there are probably fewer than 100, know how he got there. We get it, dude.

But we’re being positive now!

OK. I’m pro-anything that gets Dany’s ass up and out of Meereen as quickly as possible. Therefore, I’m a fan of Tyrion’s truncated journey to the court of the Khaleesi. This change goes some of the way toward loosening the infamous Meereenese knot that ends up strangling so much of the momentum of A Dance With Dragons. Some of the knot is simply a byproduct of the structure; building a novel on first-person POV’s makes timing tricky, as evidenced by Martin’s attempted-then-abandoned five-year time jump. Still, reading the books, I never understood why Dany didn’t use her time in Meereen more efficiently. Dragon-riding should be her no. 1 priority. Why didn’t she have people scouring the ruins of Valyria and libraries near and far for any and all information pertaining to how the hell to control her dragons? Also, I think I detect a subtle retcon of Dany’s relationship with Drogon from the last scene of the episode. In the books, Drogon was ostensibly drawn to the pits by the fighting and blood. Once he’s there, Dany courageously brings him to heel with a whip. They fly away together, but Dany isn’t in control. The show seems to suggest that Drogon came because he sensed she was in danger.

What about you? What changes, if any, does Mallory “I Fear Change” Rubin view in a positive light?

Mother of Dragons: YOU MEAN OTHER THAN THE MERCIFUL DECISION NOT TO BESMIRCH JORAH’S BEAUTIFUL VISAGE WITH A SLAVE TATTOO? (Are you noticing a pattern, Ser Jason?)

My vote also goes to the Tyrion-Dany meet-cute, but for the sake of variety, I’ll offer up two other show tweaks that have gone down as smoothly as the best Arbor vintage.

First, I’d like to bend the knee to the Jaime/Bronn bromance. While I agree with everything you said about the Dorne plot and have no earthly idea what possessed the showrunners to send Jaime to the Water Gardens, I can’t complain about the Kingslayer’s choice of travel companion. Even on a show with a long history of delightful odd-couple pairings, the interplay between Bronn and Jaime has been a downright joy, particularly in a season otherwise light on comic relief. Ilyn Payne made a fine sparring partner as Book Jaime learned to fight with his left hand, but the King’s Justice definitely couldn’t deliver a rousing rendition of “The Dornishman’s Wife.” I have no idea how word of Cersei’s boudoir betrayal will reach Jaime in Dorne or how he’ll cope with Myrcella’s disfigurement, especially if that happens on his watch, but I’m more excited to find out than I thought I’d be.

And my other vote goes to Jaime’s better half, Cersei the Worsti. At first, I felt cheated out of the Kettleblack experience, but I’ve come around to these simpler times — and timelines. Cersei ruined Lancel’s life. She corrupted him, turning a perfectly innocent Ken Doll Lite into a practitioner of incest and regicide. There’s something poetic about Lancel, rather than the Kettleblacks, being the one to arm the High Sparrow with the weapons that His Holiness needs to use against the Dowager Queen; something fitting about family, the one thing that Cersei claims to love and cherish despite actions that frequently indicate otherwise, coming back to bite her in the soon-to-be-bare ass.

But enough about the characters we’re seeing nearly every Sunday night, Slayer. At this point, it seems like we’re going to have to let go of our Lady Stoneheart dreams, but which book character’s absence is wearing on your soul like the ground on a Poor Fellow’s feet?

PHILIPPE MERLE/AFP/GETTY IMAGES

The Maester: My top three most missed characters:

1. Wyman Manderly. The morbidly obese Lord Too-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse was one of the best parts of A Dance With Dragons. He provided a window into Northern resentment against Bolton rule, pointed Davos in the direction of our long-lost Rickon, and cooked the Freys into a pie and served the pies at the Ramsay-“Arya” wedding.

2. Various Freys. Where are the Freys? Will we ever get to see them paid back in kind?

3. Euron Greyjoy. Although, if the Season 6 casting call is to be believed, we will see him. (More on this next time!)

How about you?

Mother of Dragons: Great list! I can’t believe that you waited 2,000 words to talk about Your Man Wyman Manderly. Admirable restraint.

While you’re busy thirsting after Euron and his horn, I’m craving Victarion and his mangled arm. I miss the Greyjoy plots way more than I thought I would and am now secretly hoping that the Iron Islands gets its own spinoff. (If only on this website — you in, Cocreator Concepcion?) I also really miss Quentyn and Arianne and feel sure that the Martell plot would be vastly more fulfilling if these characters were in play. But there’s no contest who I’m missing most: YOUNG GRIFF, WHERE ARE YOU?

I think we should save most of the Aegon talk for next week’s post-finale book club edition, because at that point I’ll have moved on from mourning Shireen and will be ready to theorize in full about Season 6. So let’s bring this home: We can’t know for sure what Season 5’s conclusion will bring, but we have a few pretty good ideas. Is there one event that you’re anticipating the most?

The Maester: Oh, you know, only the world melting under a chorus of screams as Jon Snow sinks limply to the ground with knives sticking out of his back, his Direwolf locked up in a closet somewhere.

Mother of Dragons: Hey, don’t be such a downer! Maybe people might be too busy gawking at Cersei during her naked march of contrition to notice Jon’s blood soaking the snow below the Wall!

We’ll be back next week, folks. Enjoy the finale!

Praticamente il discorso che abbiamo fatto nelle scorse pagine

[Stakko 1.693]

5x10

 

Per la sesta stagione ci vuole il bandierone con la faccia degli Estranei.

Un po' di conclusioni:

-Bravo Stannis: metà soldati scappano, tua moglie s'impacca, vieni umiliato in battaglia e probabilmente muori. Ti saresti meritato anche di essere scuoiato vivo dopo aver dato ascoltato quella pazza e aver fatto bruciare tua figlia...

-Bentornato Theon, meglio tardi che mai.

-Finalmente Arya riesce ad uccidere qualcuno della lista.

-A Dorne passeranno tanti guai, ma tanti tanti.

-L'umiliazione di Cercei è strameritata.

-Tyron e Varys a comandare Mereen.

-Il finale: e che *! L'unico personaggio con un minimo di sale in zucca e buon senso ucciso (?) come un maiale.

Spero che i Bruti facciano i bruti ed uccidano i veri traditori...

 

 

 

[Masula 26.108]

=5x10

 

 

 

Mel non è stata Codarda, ha semplicemente capito che la sua magia è stata usata per altro e non per far vincere la guerra Stannis.

 

 

Chissà a cosa porterà

 

Detto che hanno tagliato un parte molto importante alla Barriera, ovvero quella dove Mel "profetizza" a Gion snò il tradimento dei confratelli.

 

Ma in qualche modo dovevano farla tornare e quindi il sacrificio della figlia di Stannis è servito un po' a quello, ovvero a farle capire che Stannis fosse la "bandiera" sbagliata.

 

 

Ora mi aspetto un po' di magia alla "Thoros di Myr" (il tizio che venerava lo stesso dio di Mel che riportava in vita Beric a manetta)

 

 

 

[Mormegil 13.611]

Praticamente il discorso che abbiamo fatto nelle scorse pagine

 

Esatto, credo che grantland ci legga

[alexkingdelpiero10 1.208]

alla fine la serie tv ha raggiunto i libri. ora sono curioso se uscirà prima la sesta stagione ad aprile o il libro (che comunque non uscirà nel 2015)...

Vai a vedere che la serie tv spoilererà il libro...

 

mi chiedo solo una cosa:

 

ciò che è successo a Stannis e figlia lo vedremo anche nei libri? perché so che Martin collabora con gli sceneggiatori della serie tv... magari lui gli ha detto come proseguire...

Parere mio: Melisandre si accorge che Stannis non è Azor Ahai che in realtà è Jon Snow... Melisandre riporterà in vita Jon come Bedric Dondarrion ha fatto a Catelyn Stark nei libri...

Non mi aspettavo la morte di Myrcella... stupida Ellaria-Anna Mazzamauro... Ora Dorne è nei guai e i piani di Doran sono fottuti...

Poi non mi è piaciuto Dorne e la storyline in particolare... le Serpi di Sabbia poi le hanno fatte apparire come tro**ni invece che guerriere...

Contento di aver visto Robert Strong

 

che ne dite?